You bastard. Let us be perfectly clear about what happened here. Obama pledged that he would support a filibuster of any bill involving telecom immunity. And what did he do this afternoon? He allowed Americans to be sodomized on this point. Even Hillary voted against this. If this centrist prevaricator keeps this up, I’m voting for some third party loon on principle. The Daily Kos, true to its hypocritical and opportunistic stance, remains silent about this disgrace. I guess Kos and the gang don’t like to advertise when they’ve been thoroughly betrayed by their ostensible savior. Meanwhile, Glenn Greenwald is on the case.
[UPDATE: And if this flip-flop doesn’t piss you off, perhaps Obama’s astonishingly sexist remarks on abortion will. “Mental distress?” Why don’t you just say that these women are suffering from hysteria?]
Do you think the mental stress thing is out of context? I mean, maybe there was something about “mental stress” earlier in the interview that he was just responding to.
And yes, I’m upset about the telecom thing. But just repeat to yourself: We cannot afford a president John McCain.
In 2000 I voted for Nader, and was thus part of a group that handed George Bush the presidency. I couldn’t live with myself if I did something like that again.
Vote Obama.
Voting for Nader in 2000 did NOT hand Bush the presidency. Gore, on the one hand, and the Supreme Court, on the other, not to mention outright vote theft, handed Bush the presidency. Why is this so hard to understand? This should be an uncontroversial point, but apparently no one wants to accept that the system simply doesn’t function.
Your blog posts recently have resembled someone who is a third party loon. I realize that you’re outraged by Obama’s seemingly shifting positions and overjoyed at the passing of a hardcore bigot, aka Jesse Helms, but you’re writing has hit that point that divides the legitimate critics and the cranks. Littering your posts with obscenities and other crude language doesn’t help you make your point. It just makes you sound like an angry man who found his outlet on the internet. Sure, Helms was a degenerate pig, but to celebrate his death is pretty low brow and highly inappropriate. I’m not trying to minimize the affect that his words had on millions of minorities, but, please, we’re not talking about Hitler here. For God’s sake, man, have a little decency. Or is that the point here, not to have any?
Mike: I do not believe that one should always remain decent in the face of indecency, particularly in the present age. There seems to be a censure on anger in our time, the idea that we should bend over and take all this sodomizing without complaint, the notion that we cannot speak ill of the dead. Well, Jefferson said that the American people more or less deserve the government they get. And if they cannot be bothered to get angry or actuated by these injustices, then I feel compelled to. I will happily kick in the teeth of anyone who commits a gross injustice to many, as Helms did throughout his life and Obama did with his betrayal, and who wishes to pretend that the injustice didn’t happen, was part of a “consistent” position, etcetera. It seems the American thing to do. So long as America exists, that is.
Ed, think HRC would have voted the same way, or Obama the same way, if HRC was the candidate?
Cause I don’t.
Then again, I’m the blogger Mike accuses you of being.
Nader got more votes in Florida (many times more) than Bush “won” by in that state. If Nader hadn’t been in the race, there wouldn’t have been any Supreme Court finagling. Nader gave Bush the election.
Kos responds here: http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/10/1102/20431/68/549114
“Like all retreats, this one came with a price. Much of his veneer as a transformational politician has faded. He’s a gifted and inspirational politician, no doubt about that, and he will make a great president. But at the end of the day, he’s a politician, with all the triangulating goodness that’s become a hallmark of our presidential candidates. That has cost him some intensity of support, some bad headlines, a new avenue of attack for Republicans (even though McCain didn’t even bother showing up for the vote), and … renewed energy and sense of purpose for the ridiculous PUMAs. That last one is really fucking annoying.
But none of this is on Hillary Clinton. The bottom line is that Clinton voted the right way on FISA, as we’d hope she and every other Democrat (and even some Republicans) would.
The fact that Obama voted the wrong way isn’t Clinton’s fault. It’s his.”
Maybe Obama is setting the stage to pull a reversal of Bush 2000 – run as a moderate, win the election, and then veer left. I’m hoping.
Apparently it’s very difficult to understand indeed.
“Nader got more votes in Florida (many times more) than Bush “won” by in that state. If Nader hadn’t been in the race, there wouldn’t have been any Supreme Court finagling. Nader gave Bush the election.”
People always quote those numbers as if they’re uncontroversially the facts of the matter. Yet even your use of the quotation marks around the word “won” implies the opposite. The votes in Florida were heavily rigged, and, besides that, there were countless votes that went uncounted, in part because of Gore’s own decisions about how to contest the election. Which says nothing about the voters (mainly African American) who were prevented from getting to the polls. That is to say, we don’t know how many votes the various candidates actually got. (Then there’s Gore’s major role in the widespread disenfranchisement of voters, which again affected African Americans disproportionately.)
If Gore had an ounce of credibility, he’d have maintained his protest. He doesn’t, he didn’t. It’s more important to loudly proclaim the unity and credibility of the failed “system”.
But, let’s pull back. Let’s imagine for a moment that the election was completely honest. All votes were counted. And in Florida, Bush wins by 500 votes, and Nader got 1000. This still doesn’t = “Nader gave Bush the election”. The election takes place in every state. Is every third party candidate supposed to simply not run, ever, on the off chance that in one state, which happens that year to be pivotal, the margin of victory is so small that his or her tiny amount “makes the difference”? This is asinine and anti-democratic.
Ed, you live in New York. Obama will win New York no matter who you vote for. You’re afforded the luxury to vote with 100% conviction, so do so. Your opinions may be of value, but your vote means shit.
In a two-party system like ours, third parties become spoiler votes. That’s been the case since the Whig party fell apart. It was the case when Theodore Roosevelt decided to run for a third term with the “Bull Moose” party and cost Taft the election, putting the thoroughly racist Woodrow Wilson into office. It was the case when Ross Perot gave the election to Clinton. And it’s the case today.
Besides which the case can be made that a two party system tends to promote candidates who are closer to the center, unlike a multiparty system where someone with extreme views can win by getting a plurality of votes (as happened with Hitler — not that I’m comparing anyone to Hitler, just as an example).
Believe me, I used to be all about the third parties. And then Bush came to power and I realized that what I’d believed was wrong. The way American politics work, one must work within the two party system. Primaries have become the place where one can vote one’s conscience.
For more on why multi-party politics don’t work in a majority-ballot election like we have in the US, check out this article:
http://janda.org/c24/Readings/Duverger/Duverger.htm
An excerpt:
Proponents of third-parties in the US seem ignorant of the mechanics involved in a majority-ballot electoral system.
You’re refusing to have anything to do with the facts of the stolen election. So there’s no need for me to address your (frankly uncontroversial) points about the two-party system. (Your blanket dismissal of multi-party systems is simply depressing. There are all kinds of voting methods available to avoid a simple plurality result.)
I will say this: no one who voted for Nader expected him to actually win the election. Voting for him was part of a larger strategy. Which, indeed, failed, but Bush getting “elected” was not a sign of that failure. I still say it was worth trying.
Yeah, you still haven’t said anything to convince me I’m wrong that third party candidates act as spoilers in American politics. And I admit that voter fraud was involved, there’s been voted fraud in every election in US history, I just don’t think it was the only factor and I don’t think it would have overcome the extra votes that Nader’s not running would have provided.
Ed: Sure, anger is not something that should be restrained or censured in the face of injustice. However, I think the way one conducts one’s self in the face of said injustice speaks volumes regarding their character. My point is not to hold back on your views for fear of offending someone. Rather, I think the more eloquently you can state your positions, the better. Throwing random obscenities and referring to sodomy isn’t eloquently put speech, but rather something a reactionary crank would resort to. You’re obviously a very good writer, and your numerous posts reflect that talent. But when I see the post about Helms, the vulgarity and just total disregard for human decency is so apparent. Don’t you think that Helms would have had similar reactions to the deaths of the numerous groups he opposed and offended? I guess my point is that by using the language that you do, you’re presenting yourself as not being any different from them. I don’t take offense to vulgar language, but I think your treading on thin ice and coming incredibly close to becoming a reactionary crank.
[…] was an animated discussion here a few days ago over whether Obama’s shift to the center represented political realities that were necessary […]
WILL A PRESIDENT OBAMA CHAMPION THIS INJUSTICE ?
INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH FEDERAL APPEALS!!!
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.
****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.
Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.
This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.
This unjust judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!
Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!
For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.
It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.
This facade of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT,BECOME THE GUILTY!
A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE::
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
SENATOR OBAMA,PLEASE TELL AMERICA YOUR FEELINGS
ON THIS US JUDICIAL INJUSTICE ???
WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL HORROR CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????
** SADLY THIS REPRESSIVE JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM !!!
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????
**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS ! THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.
****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY **** The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide. Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.
This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.
This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!
Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!
For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.
It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.
This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!
A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:: 1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
WHY DO POORER AMERICANS NEED GOD TO LOBBY THE US CONGRESS SENATOR OBAMA ???
SURELY OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD & US SUPREME COURT BOTH KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WRONGFUL GEORGIA STATE MURDER OR A POSSIBLE EXECUTION IN GEORGIA NEXT WEEK ???
SADLY, OUR US CONGRESS CONTINUES TO DENY MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION EVEN THOUGH WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS & FALSE INCARCERATIONS CONTINUE ALL ACROSS AMERICA ???
*** 700 BILLION $$$ AVAILABLE FOR US BAILOUT,& NO $$$ FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION OR RETRIALS WHEN NEEDED ???????
WHERE ARE AMERICA’S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ????????????
SENATOR OBAMA, THIS JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM, AND NO LONGER CAN BE KEPT HIDDEN OR SECRET FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN IF CERTAIN (501c3) U$ RELIGIOU$ LEADER$ HAVE BEEN $ILENCED ??
LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS CONTINUE TO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA’S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????
WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK & LATINO AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????
*** WHEN GOD’S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????
**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.
****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.
Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.
This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.
This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!
Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus with our US FEDERAL COURTS and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!
For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.
It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.
This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!
A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
(424-247-2013)